Energy Tradeoffs Podcast #41 – Sheila Olmstead

For this week’s EnergyTradeoffs.com podcast interview, we have David Spence interviewing Sheila Olmstead his colleague at the University of Texas, about Sheila’s research on “Carbon Taxes: The Evolving Conventional Wisdom.”

Sheila responds to the concern that a carbon tax would have a regressive impact on lower-income households by raising the price of energy. She explains that a carbon tax is actually less likely to have a net regressive impact on low-income households than other climate policies. Nearly all climate policies place disproportionate burdens on low-income households that spend a larger share of their income on energy. But a carbon tax produces revenue that can be used to offset or eliminate the costs it imposes on vulnerable populations. (And, of course, as I argue here on Greg Mankiw’s blog, it imposes more transparent burdens than other climate policies, which means that policymakers will be more likely to address those burdens on low-income households.)

Sheila also argues that a carbon tax would not have a major negative impact on the economy. And she argues that the negative impact of the tax on some fossil fuel sectors is a feature not a bug of a policy designed to cut greenhouse gas emissions. Sheila also argues that even if a carbon tax starts at $40 per ton, new research suggests that it should rise well beyond that. Finally, Sheila explains the controversy over whether governments that impose a carbon price should consider rolling back other climate regulations.

Sheila and David reference the Climate Leadership Council’s “Economist Statement on Carbon Dividends,” which was signed by all four former Chairs of the Federal Reserve, 27 Nobel Laureate economists, and 3,500 economists, including Sheila. 

The Energy Tradeoffs Podcast can be found at the following links: Apple | Google

Energy Tradeoffs Podcast #40 – Doug Kysar

This Thursday’s EnergyTradeoffs.com podcast is our 40th episode! It features Yale Law School’s Doug Kysar talking with University of Colorado’s Sharon Jacobs about his research on “Tort Law & Climate Litigation.”

Sharon and Doug first discuss the different types of climate litigation, including causes of action based on nuisance, arguments that the government holds the climate in trust for future generation, and claims that fossil fuel companies have misled investors and the public about the dangers of climate change. They go on to discuss the challenges of holding companies liable when greenhouse gas emissions were also caused by consumers around the world, and how that may prevent or dissuade judges from allowing these suits to go forward. Finally, they discuss the remedies that the various plaintiffs are looking for to protect them from climate harm.

The conversation builds on a 2017 article that Doug and Henry Weaver published in the Notre Dame Law Review, which was titled “Courting Disaster:  Climate Change and the Adjudication of Catastrophe.”

The Energy Tradeoffs Podcast can be found at the following links: 
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Energy Tradeoffs Podcast #39: Hannah Wiseman

For this week’s EnergyTradeoffs.com podcast interview, we have David Spence interviewing my friend and co-author Hannah Wiseman, now at Penn State Law – University Park, about her research on “Balancing the Local Costs and Wider Benefits of Energy Development.”

Hannah and David discuss her research on how to address energy projects that have concentrated costs in local communities but broader benefits to the economy and energy system—such as natural gas fracking and solar and wind farms. At times, states have responded to local opposition by stripping communities of local control over energy development, but that can leave important externalities unregulated. Hannah suggests that taxation might be a better way to address these externalities.

Hannah has a forthcoming paper titled “Taxing Local Energy Externalities” forthcoming in the Notre Dame Law Review. And along with Tara Righetti, we have just published a paper in the Yale Law Journal Forum on “The New Oil & Gas Governance.” Hannah also cites Kristen van de Biezenbos‘s important argument on oil company negotiations with local communities, “Contracted Fracking.

The Energy Tradeoffs Podcast can be found at the following links: Apple | Google

Energy Tradeoffs Podcast #38 – Caroline Cecot

In this Thursday’s EnergyTradeoffs.com podcast episode, I talk with Caroline Cecot of GMU’s Scalia Law School about her research on “Regulating the Risks of Fracking to Water.”

Caroline describes her empirical research on how New York towns approached fracking in the years before it was banned across the State. She finds that towns that were more vulnerable to water pollution and those that were less accustomed to oil and gas development were more likely to ban fracking. As a result, she argues that fracking might win more widespread support if better water contamination regulation could assure local communities of its safety. She also describes some of her ideas for improving insurance and regulation of fracking risks to water.

The discussion builds on two of Caroline’s recent articles: “Regulatory Fracture Plugging: Managing Risks to Water from Shale Development,” which was published in the Texas A&M Law Review in 2018, and “No Fracking Way: An Empirical Investigation of Local Shale Development Bans in New York,”which was published in Environmental Law in 2019.

The Energy Tradeoffs Podcast can be found at the following links: 
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Energy Tradeoffs Podcast #37 – Eric Biber

Another week, another EnergyTradeoffs.com podcast episode. This week, the University of California at Berkeley’s Eric Biber talks with David Spence about his research on “How Law Must Change in the Anthropocene.”

Eric explains his argument that as humans change the global environment, legal doctrines will have to change to accommodate regulatory responses as well as to address wider problems triggered by environmental harm. Eric describes the comprehensive challenges that will arise from climate change and other global environmental challenges and how they are caused by the “full range of human activity.” As a result, he argues that these challenges will require, in David’s words, “fundamental changes in the relationship between governments and individuals.” Eric describes how governments might be forced to rethink traditional approaches to legal rules for tort causation, federalism, and state coercion.

The conversation builds on Eric’s 2017 article on “Law in the Anthropocene Epoch” , which was published in the Georgetown Law Journal.

The Energy Tradeoffs Podcast can be found at the following links: 
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Energy Tradeoffs Podcast #36 – Scott Burger

This week’s EnergyTradeoffs.com podcast episode features David Spence interviewing MIT’s Scott Burger about his research on “How to Value Distributed Energy Resources.”

David and Scott discuss the problems that can arise if rooftop solar is overcompensated through net metering when rooftop solar is mostly installed by wealthier customers. Scott and his colleagues “simulated rooftop solar adoption across single family homes [in] the Chicago, Illinois area” and found that bills dropped for rooftop solar adopters and rose for those who didn’t adopt. This tended to increase costs for low-income consumers “[b]ecause adopters are (on average) wealthier than non-adopters.”

The discussion builds on one of Scott’s recent articles: “Why Distributed? A Critical Review of the Tradeoffs Between Centralized and Decentralized Resources,” which was published last year.

The Energy Tradeoffs Podcast can be found at the following links: 
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Energy Tradeoffs Podcast #35 – Michael Wara, Part II

This week’s EnergyTradeoffs.com podcast episode is Part II of Michael Wara‘s discussion with David Spence about his research on California’s wildfire policies. This two-part series focuses on “PG&E’s Wildfire Liability and Bankruptcy: Who Pays?” Today’s 19-minute podcast episode starts where the last one left off; it focuses on “Bankruptcy & the Future.”

Michael explains why PG&E’s bankruptcy is co complex, noting: “It’s a mess. It’s not just in one court. It’s in seven.” And he explains how some of the important stakeholders and issues are not well represented in the bankruptcy proceedings. For example, he notes that ratepayers are not directly represented. He also highlights the danger that the results of the bankruptcy may make it even harder to address California’s affordable housing shortage.

As noted last week, Michael is frequently quoted in the media as an expert on PG&E, wildfires, and liability.

The Energy Tradeoffs Podcast can be found at the following links: 
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Energy Tradeoffs Podcast #34 – Michael Wara, Part I

This Thursday’s EnergyTradeoffs.com podcast features Stanford University’s Michael Wara talking with David Spence about his research on California’s wildfire policies. This week’s podcast episode is the first part of a two-part series on “PG&E’s Wildfire Liability and Bankruptcy: Who Pays?”

This episode focused on wildfire causes, liability, and victims. David and Michael talk about why Northern California has been so vulnerable to fires in recent years, including how fire prevention practices have differed from those in Southern California. They also discuss why utilities have been shutting off power to avoid fires and how customers have responded to the risk that their power supply will be cut off.

Michael appears frequently in the media as an expert on PG&E, wildfires, and liability. Just last week he released a new NBER working paper on “The Changing Risk and Burden of Wildfire in the US.” If you’d like more background on wildfire law and policy, I can recommend two articles by Karen Bradshaw of Arizona State: a 2010 piece titled “A Modern Overview of Wildfire Law” and a 2015 piece on stakeholder collaborations in wildfire policy.

The Energy Tradeoffs Podcast can be found at the following links: 
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Energy Tradeoffs Podcast #33 – Michael Burger

Another week, another EnergyTradeoffs.com podcast episode. This week, Michael Burger of Columbia University talks with the University of Texas’s David Spence about Michael’s work on “Climate Litigation & the Green Transition.”

Michael and David talk about the variety of lawsuits that have been brought to try and hold fossil fuel companies responsible for the costs of climate change. (A chart collecting and organizing the wide variety of these cases can be found here.) Michael and David discuss the difficulty of finding just some companies liable for global climate change caused by many companies around the world. They also describe the possibility that climate change could be attributed to the consumers that burn fossil fuels rather than the companies that sell the fuels and how plaintiffs could draw analogies to lawsuits over tobacco, opioids, and guns.

The conversation builds on some of Michael’s recently published research including co-authored papers titled “The Status of Climate Change Litigation: A Global Review,” and “The Law and Science of Climate Change Attribution.”

The Energy Tradeoffs Podcast can be found at the following links: 
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Energy Tradeoffs Podcast #32 – Rossi & Serkin

This Thursday’s EnergyTradeoffs.com podcast episode features features the University of Texas’s David Spence interviewing Vanderbilt Law School’s Jim Rossi and Chris Serkin about their proposal for “Energy Exactions“.

Jim and Chris describe this proposal, which would have local governments impose “a fee on development … that is designed to avoid strains on the energy grid.” It would build on existing negotiations between developers and local governments that often require developers to pay for some of the local services they will require. To comply with an energy exaction, a developer could either pay for the new burden it would place on the energy grid or even pay for energy-saving technologies that would eliminate this burden.

This discussion explores Jim and Chris’s recent paper, which was published in the Cornell Law Review and is also titled “Energy Exactions“.

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